BTA06-600S vs BTA06-600C Triacs

TED said:
You can save a substantial amount of money by shopping around for some of these parts.
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Realize though, if you don't know what you're looking for, it could actually cost you substantially more. You could get something that doesn't work or doesn't work very well. Of course it's possible that you could destroy your board too.

It's good to experiment with unproven ideas but Thomas Edison had a few things that didn't work too.



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I ment nothing negative or discouraging in my comment, was simply trying to help. He wanted to use led's I knew about the flickering issues that seemed to be mostly fixed by the triac change so thought it would save him more money to not go down the same flickering road.
 
TED said:
One of the ways that improvements are made is by asking questions and trying different things. If no one ever tried something different there wouldn't be 85 different types of renard boards listed in the wiki!



Before I even read your reply I was thinking the same thing. You can save a substantial amount of money by shopping around for some of these parts. (If you are buying small quantities then Mouser is one of the most expensive places to buy.) Sometimes you happen upon a deal just by searching through some of the parts sites. I just happened upon some BTA10-400CRG triacs for 23 cents and the minimum quantity is 1. That's more than $1 savings per triac compared to the price (of the BTA06 part) at Mouser. Check it out:
http://parts.arrow.com/item/detail/stmicroelectronics/bta10-400crg#gQJE

TED
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So Ted... what you are really saying it is only certain questions are encouraged, right? I asked WHY stray from the BOM. I wanted to know the intention, purpose, reason for it so I could give a better more informed answer. But according to your logic, (and others who have seemed to jump all over this), we are to simply answer the questions willy nilly with no regard to what the situation is, if possibly it could be a safety hazard , etc, etc.....
I never said, hey, you have to use the BOM, Hey, dont ask questions. I can however in the future, just give Yes, or No answers to these potentially dangerous questions if that will encourage MORE questions so we can further promote this hobby without the fear of having to answer a "why" question, and hey, if someone gets hurt, at least they got an answer without being asked why they wanted to change parts, right?
 
corytcline said:
I ment nothing negative or discouraging in my comment...
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All I’m saying is if you choose to use different parts than the ones that we’ve found to work and though may work for you in your particular situation, don’t expect them to do so in all situations. If you ever have problems, the first place to suspect is where you changed from the recommended BOM.

If they work fine for you then great! But if they don’t then you’ll spend more time and money than you originally thought you were saving. Just know your risks and what you’re willing to accept.

That said, I hardly ever use what’s in the BOM’s. I use what I have on hand first. I have the ability and equipment to troubleshoot unknown anomalies. It’s also only Christmas lights. If they don’t work, it’s not the end of the world. Trouble shoot and fix or replace and move on. I’d prefer that stuff doesn’t break though since it’s dog gone cold out there.
 
<gets on soapbox>

This particular subject seems to be quite a "touchy" subject! It looks like there is an element of "dark art" in finding the right part to use. It is quite a frustrating situation to have. It is also frustrating to not know why a change is working. I am sure that frustration feeds into some of the responses here.

Maybe something to keep in mind is that the designs ARE the "baby" of the designer and someone asking about making changes is like attacking the baby! However, I too am always on the looks for a cheaper way to do things and saving something like $1 a part on a high count part REALLY adds up. It is not very helpful to say "use what I say because I say so!" rather than having a GOOD, open-minded reason for the original decision.

<gets off soapbox>

Ok, I will shut up now...
 
CaptKirk said:
<gets on soapbox>

This particular subject seems to be quite a "touchy" subject! It looks like there is an element of "dark art" in finding the right part to use. It is quite a frustrating situation to have. It is also frustrating to not know why a change is working. I am sure that frustration feeds into some of the responses here.

Maybe something to keep in mind is that the designs ARE the "baby" of the designer and someone asking about making changes is like attacking the baby! However, I too am always on the looks for a cheaper way to do things and saving something like $1 a part on a high count part REALLY adds up. It is not very helpful to say "use what I say because I say so!" rather than having a GOOD, open-minded reason for the original decision.

<gets off soapbox>

Ok, I will shut up now...
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Nope... not it, sorry.

Sometimes people want to change parts simply because they found a deal, or sometimes because of a design change, and other reasons I am sure. BUT.. to just jump on ebay or tayda or where ever and start throwing up part numbers and saying, "Hey will this work?" without saying WHY you want to use it, leaves the question wide open. Sooooo, when we ask, why the change, it all the sudden becomes a "TOUCHY" subject to those who want to stir the pot.
So is it so bad to want to know why a part change is wanting to be made so more sound advice or answers can be given? Or are we to simply shut up and say Yes or No without even knowing the application? And really, how can the question even be answered if there is no WHY explanation attached.

Sorry Kirk, no big conspiracy, just some simple application questions to try and help people with better choices. Nice try though.
 
Is/was the flicker issue with incans and leds or just leds ?

I have read on the web where various people have posted dimmer issues with leds and have solved it with a parallel incan .

I gather this would be the snubber solution ?

Being that I have a few ren ss boards I have yet to experience flicker on my snowflake leds.

One thing i do notice is that my snowflake leds seem to sometimes be on at very low power with no sequence going on . .

would the snubber be used to bleed off this low power issue ?

Not trying to hijack just would like to gain the know how .

Cheers

Richard
 
Yes, I think snubbers will solve your problem but not bleed off. It adds load for a more complete shutoff.

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Skunberg said:
Yes, I think snubbers will solve your problem but not bleed off. It adds load for a more complete shutoff.

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I would clean the board first. I experienced this on a single string last season and dampness was the cause.
 
Wayne J said:
Nope... not it, sorry.

Sometimes people want to change parts simply because they found a deal, or sometimes because of a design change, and other reasons I am sure. BUT.. to just jump on ebay or tayda or where ever and start throwing up part numbers and saying, "Hey will this work?" without saying WHY you want to use it, leaves the question wide open. Sooooo, when we ask, why the change, it all the sudden becomes a "TOUCHY" subject to those who want to stir the pot.
So is it so bad to want to know why a part change is wanting to be made so more sound advice or answers can be given? Or are we to simply shut up and say Yes or No without even knowing the application? And really, how can the question even be answered if there is no WHY explanation attached.

Sorry Kirk, no big conspiracy, just some simple application questions to try and help people with better choices. Nice try though.
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Wayne- I read the same question and although not OVERTLY answered, it was pretty understandable TO ME why he wanted to try the other part - because for HIM it would be a "nice option" which to me equates to price/availability/good shipping options. You jumped to the "why" question abruptly and in what read to me to be a brusque/grumpy voice. You did not even give the WHY for your why question which would have helped soften the response. I stepped in NOT to "stir the pot" as your own conspiracy theory postulates, but because you were pushing away a new member. I know this because I was in touch with him directly and was asked "what your issue was..." and I wanted to try to reduce any hurt feelings. I also know from asking or making similar types of suggestions that "do as I say" seems to be a TOO common answer with these sorts of topics.

I did not mean to annoy you more than you already seemed from your posts even though I thought I was better tuned into both sides of the disconnect, but, alas, that did not work out.

So maybe the way I would have answered his question would have been more like:

"You did not say why you wanted to deviate from the BOM recommendations, but I will try to answer your question without knowing the full reason for the need to change. Electrically the 600C or S will work, however, with LEDs and some other incandescent applications, there has been a channel flicker issue that is difficult to root cause. We have found the recommended part, the 600CW seems to minimize the flicker (without knowing fully why it does so) so we would recommend using the CW part but you certainly can try the others without burning anything up."

Make sense?
 
:lol:.... talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. You guys just don't quit. :lol:
 
There is no "you guys", no conspiracies, no one is out to gain ANYTHING from people just trying to respectfully help people who just want to blink their lights. In the grand scheme of things- this is a hobby site, and if it went away, we would be sad, but not drastically impacted. I'm not sure why you act like it is anything bigger than that. It seems like you primarily are making a big thing out of nothing or at least the attitude that comes through your posts indicates issues. It is only a big deal because you are a moderator and a face for the site. When you are brusque or gruff with someone, it carries a bit more "weight" than if a member was to be rude or insulting. We understand when members do that and usually we can work it out, but I would hope a moderator would be held to higher standards than members.

So again- CW are recommended because of flicker, but C or S will function but might see inter-channel flicker and no one is sure WHY that is the case although the gate trigger levels and noise generated on the mains are suspected.
 
Being new here, is there a new part that I should buy for my new controller? I really don't want to buy the wrong thing, especially if the BOM is wrong.
 
The BOM is not wrong. The entire discussion here is about the suitability of a particular substitute for the preferred part that is listed on the BOM.
 
Richard U. said:
Being new here, is there a new part that I should buy for my new controller? I really don't want to buy the wrong thing, especially if the BOM is wrong.
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Hi Richard,

Please realize that you should follow the BOM's as they are listed. This is really the only safe way to be sure the builds work as designed. There are countless folks who have built, tested, and continue to use the boards as they were designed. My OP was specific to SSR Neon's, not a control board. I'm a little more inquisitive and willing to try different builds at the risk they might have some issues, or might not work. I'm confident in my own skill level and background with A/C line voltage, therefore not too worried about having safety issues, or putting anyone else at risk by changing a part out. I put all lighting on GFI's and test everything that is accessible to others in a display or otherwise.

I would strongly suggest, as many other's have commented, STICK to the BOM if you are new and want to be sure every thing works the first round. I'm interested in saving money, but before I ever changed a part out from the BOM, I like to ask those who have been around. I also make sure to read as much as I can and try to really understand the parts, the specs, and how changing them may affect the outcome.

Long and short, you'll be happy with the Group Buys, kits, and other opportunities that are put together by the BOM. Don't let this thread side track you.

Just my opinion. I'm pretty new to all this as well. Learned a lot from all these guys in a short period though.

Good luck in the hobby.
 
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Threads like this are why I almost didn't even post my "RJ45 Breakout Board Alternative" thread last night.

When I stumbled across that part I thought "wow those are cool, I should let my fellow DIYers Know". So I typed up a post, then as I was reading it I worried that I may offend the people who make the breakout boards. I re-wrote my post a couple times, gave up, deleted.

A half hour later I convinced myself that someone may actually want to use them so it was not fair to keep them to myself so I typed up the post again. That post took me about 20 minutes to write. I knew I had to compliment the original PCB, point out the ways it was better, but I didn't want it to sound like I was groveling.

The first thing I did this morning when I woke up was to grab my phone and check to see if anyone was mad. (the second thing I did was to read this thread, but I see it is old so I have no idea why it was at the top of the front page. If it was on the front page yesterday I never would have made my post.)

I wonder how many people have found their own cool alternatives to things and just don't bother to share out of fear.
 
hasoon said:
I wonder how many people have found their own cool alternatives to things and just don't bother to share out of fear.
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I'm sure it does happen but making it public may also point out things you didn't consider. I don't post everything I do either. Not because of fear but because I don't necessarily follow any of the DIY standards and don't want to confuse anybody.

It would be best to start a new thread on this topic though.


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