Dirk Cheap SSR Issues

It's cold tonight... I'm noticing some lag here and there with the Ren64 that has the DirkCheapSSRs on it. This even goes to the SSRs that are plugged into it.

I'm thinking about doing the following tomorrow.

1. Cut as much slack out of the ethernet cables that I can. Some lengths I know are a bit long and can be shortened a few feet at least.

2. Cut the diagnostic LEDs off the Ren64. It still pulls the same amperage of .14 max maybe it's too quick for the killawatt?

Would any of this help or do I really need to switch resistors?

Thanks for any input.

Jason
 
I'm sure it's a lot colder here (17F) than it is there, and I'm not seeing any lag. I really don't think it's a temperature issue.
 
I'm sure it's a lot colder here (17F) than it is there, and I'm not seeing any lag. I really don't think it's a temperature issue.

I agree... It was quite brisk last night, 20 with wind chill factor... tonight it was actually a decent night.. results were the same tonight as last after the change.. still noticeable to me but I also know what it's suppose to do.. Spectators would probably not see it. With heavy channel use they still dim...

Didn't get a chance to test board power since I had to hang lights at the inlaws.... you know.. to keep peace :eek:mg:

I am curious when others test what the results will be... It's evident this may only be a higher channel board issue..
 
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It's cold tonight... I'm noticing some lag here and there with the Ren64 that has the DirkCheapSSRs on it. This even goes to the SSRs that are plugged into it.
Jason

Are you saying that the lag is both with the A/C SSR's and the Dirks... or just the Dirks.. the issue I see is only on the Dirks SSR's...
 
I don't really think that people are going to see a big difference with lower temperatures, despite the comments that I made earlier. With 680 ohm input resistors the VO2223 chips are being driven with 50% of their specified drive current. It appears that people are experiencing varying results, which doesn't surprise me...
 
I agree, results will vary. Temperature could be a factor in the differences, but if so, only a small contributor. The 680 ohm resistor combined with the extra power needed by the triac is the root cause. If you are having problems, I see a couple of options to combat this.

1 - Modify sequence to lessen the effect this has on the show (i.e. Change the max brightness levels from 100% to something lower or not as many channels are on at once).

2 - Decrease the distance of the CAT 5 cable between the control board and the Dirk SSR, if possible. This will allow a little more current to be made available to the VO223.

3 - Change the resistors on the Dirk SSRs to a lower value. This fix will have the most impact, however it will work only if the micros and the power supply of your control board can handle the additional current. 330 ohm is the recommended value, but any value between 330 and 680 will show improvement in case the 330 draws too much current from the board.

4. Do nothing. Some people may not see a problem at all due to the configuration of their show, manufacturing tolerances of the chip, CAT 5 length, etc.

My 2 cents.
 
I don't have any of these SSRs I'm just going off of what I'm reading in this thread and making assumptions. It seems that cable length and the amount of channels on are contributing factors do to voltage drop on the cat-5 and the selected resistor value is right on the edge of working. Using this info it makes since to me that the largest voltage drop will be on the +5 volt wire connected to pin 1 of the RJ-45 connector at both the controller and SSR. This wire feeds all 4 VO2223A chips so it makes since that it has the most voltage drop.

There are 2 unused wires in the cat-5 cable connecting the controller to the SSR. These wires are the ones connected to pins 3 and 5 at both the controller and the SSR. So If I were in the situation of SSRs that work OK with short cables and not with long ones and had no lower value resistors on hand. I would short pins 1, 3, and 5 together at both the the controller and SSR. This will effectively make use of three wires instead of just 1 where I suspect the largest voltage drop is. I can't say it will solve everybody's issues but I would give it a shot.

Tyler
 
I agree, results will vary. Temperature could be a factor in the differences, but if so, only a small contributor. The 680 ohm resistor combined with the extra power needed by the triac is the root cause. If you are having problems, I see a couple of options to combat this.

1 - Modify sequence to lessen the effect this has on the show (i.e. Change the max brightness levels from 100% to something lower or not as many channels are on at once).

2 - Decrease the distance of the CAT 5 cable between the control board and the Dirk SSR, if possible. This will allow a little more current to be made available to the VO223.

3 - Change the resistors on the Dirk SSRs to a lower value. This fix will have the most impact, however it will work only if the micros and the power supply of your control board can handle the additional current. 330 ohm is the recommended value, but any value between 330 and 680 will show improvement in case the 330 draws too much current from the board.

4. Do nothing. Some people may not see a problem at all due to the configuration of their show, manufacturing tolerances of the chip, CAT 5 length, etc.

My 2 cents.

I don't think that number 1 would have any effect unless the resistors are reduced to less than 680 ohms AND there is a 5V power supply issue on the controller board with those reduced-value resistors.

Again, just my 2 cents.
 
I shortened my cables quite a bit. I really over did it on the length and cut out at least 40ft on the ones running up to the roof (7 runs - about 10-15ft for 5 of them that were too long). I really over did it, it's what I get for eyeballing the distance.
The ones on the SimpleRen32 I shorted about 4ft each.

Then I cut out another 40ft or so out of the main network cable connection between all my Renards. I'm using 232 channels running 57600. It's within the limits on distance/amount but I figured I was out there cleaning up for the DirkCheapSSRs might as well clean up all around.

Right now it's 38 degrees and everything is running smooth. It was colder when I started this morning but no problems then either.
 
FYI, when we tested the DirkCheapSSR prototype we tested indoors with varying length cables. We tested up to 150 feet with stranded cable and it still functioned accurately. And because the SSR was developed in the spring (well after the freezing temperatures had left) no temperature-based testing was done. Given the chip's spec dips down to -40C, we didn't expect that temperature would have much bearing on the VO2223a chip's performance -- at least not the *normal* temperatures where people live, anyway.

Our initial resistor selection (per the specs) was 120ohms, and the chip performed perfectly. However, at this level, we felt the chip would be too close to the limit of current a PIC could either source or sink, so we tried other values. We tried 330 ohms and that worked fine, too, but the total current would still have been too high for the SimpleRen32 to manage. Mathematically, the 680 seemed to be a good match for the SimpleRen32, and it was common to most all other SSRs on the market. We tested both 100 and 150 foot cabling with the SSR each time we changed resistors and we found it to perform adequately.

What we did not test were various configurations of controller/power supply combinations insofar as our standard (here at DIGWDF anyway) is to use a power supply that provides at least 200% of the required base current required by the controller or device. Consequently our test bench has 1.5A , 3A and 5A power supplies and/or transformers. (This concept seems to smack in the face of our MiniRen controllers which use a 300ma Radio Shack transformer, but 300ma is more than adequate for those small, wireless 4 and 8-channel controllers and that transformer was primarily chosen for its small footprint.)

We have built DirkCheapSSR's into some of our own display pieces and have not experienced any of the issues users have expressed. That said, we do locate our controllers outdoors in centralized locations relative to the display pieces they are assigned to control. This effectively minimizes the length of all cable runs. We also power many of our controllers with a 1.5A 6vac wall wart (see photo). We like it because it is compact enough to fit inside the same CG-1000 cases common to so many DIYC projects and because it provides ample current and voltage (actual measured voltage is 7vac) too. At 1.5amps, we never worry that our devices will suffer from a lack of current.

We are saddened to read that users have encountered these issues with the DirkCheapSSR, and we're encouraged at some of the creative and helpful comments shared by users who've found some nice workarounds. Shorter cable lengths makes good sense, as does lowering the light intensity, and certainly, changing the resistor can make a difference, too. Even soldering another resistor in parallel with the 680 will effectively lower the overall resistance, so you don't necessarily need to remove the 680 to change the resistance to a lower value. For example, soldering a second 680 right next to the existing one equates to a resistance of 340 ohms.

In any event, we felt it may be helpful to some users to know how we use the DirkCheapSSR ourselves and how we power our electronics, and we wanted to post the information.
 

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I'm just glad he said that the 380 resistor would be too much for the Simple Renard 32. I didn't know that and I was planning on using those a bunch next year. Now I have to think this out (well just go Ren64) but I've been working on grouping things closer together.
 
Also update. 33.6 degrees right now, by weatherbugs website, lights were turned on this morning and everything played normally through one busy sequence.

Is that a fair test to start completely cold like that and think if the first one plays it should be good to go?
 
I'm using 8 of them all on Ren64 and have had no issues other a couple of bad moc chips which seemed to be bad from the start. I'm using the channel LEDs on my 64 but I'm also using a larger transformer on my 64 its a 3amp. I have simple 32 as well however no dirkcheaps on any other those. All of my cheaps are being controlled by about 40' of flat satin 28awg cable.

Gary

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
 
Sooooo.. Since it's about 25 degrees outside I decided to take a closer look at things. I got a chance to pull the power supply, and see what it's rated. It is only a 6v 1 amp. I dug around my box of unused power supplies and could not find one any better... I did find a 9v 2amp... I figured I'd give it a shot.. well it worked.. and things worked great for about 5 minutes until the controller stopped responding... I hooked up the original 6v 1 amp and things came back.

I guess it should be noted somewhere that on the 64 channel boards it is recommended to us the larger power supply... With DirksCheap

Now the fun question.. anyone know where I can find a 6v 3amp power supply by oh..um.. end of the week??? I can check at work but doubt There will be any (I think I've already thumbed through them for something else)

I guess the show will go on as is until I find something better...

and sorry it took so long to finally look into my issue... not that I didn't want to.. but can't make this my life..
 
I did find a 9v 2amp... I figured I'd give it a shot.. well it worked.. and things worked great for about 5 minutes until the controller stopped responding...

The lockup was likely caused by regulator U1 overheating.... If you can not find a larger transformer, you may be able to use the 9V if you heatsink the regulator.
 
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