Large P10 matirx?

S

Santacarl

Active member
Hello All,

I'm running a large bullet matrix, roughly 16' x 8' with 2" spacing between pixels... My display is some 200+ feet away from the nearest viewing area.

I was thinking of upgrading to P-Panels in order to improve the resolution although with the distance between the viewing area and the display having 2" spacing between pixels makes the current resolution semi-tolerable. I was thinking that P10's, from that distance, would be stunning resolution.

Also, along with 200' being the nearest viewing position, I also have viewers as far as 350' away. So a small matrix, like most of the builds I have found searching the forums and YT, is much too small to see any detail from the viewing spots hence the reason for the large one I have now.

But, I haven't heard of anyone building a P-Panel matrix of that size before. I don't visit the forums all that often so I could have missed threads that contain that type of discussion.

Has anyone built a matrix that roughly approximates those dimensions? If so....I would love to see any discussion or videos along those lines. Or, am I delusional (laughing inside) to think that's a possibility? The weight alone (roughly 240 P10 Panels)would be a huge limiting factor I should think....not to mention storing that monster in the off season.....I'll shut up before I completely talk myself out of it as being a pipe dream!

Thanks for any thoughts...If you suggest that I should stick with bullets.....I can take it! Haha.

I posted this over on the AusChristmasLighting forum too just to see if our brothers 'down under' have any ideas...Just casting the net as wide as possible. ;)

SC
 
Carl my friend ! I think you should consider a mesh and a projector . much cheaper -less work and better resolution .

I hope you are doing well .
 
angus40 said:
Carl my friend ! I think you should consider a mesh and a projector . much cheaper -less work and better resolution .

I hope you are doing well .
Click to expand...
Hey Rich!!! I think the operative word in your suggestion is "OLD"...Haha.... The older I get the less I experiment!! But, I actually thought about a projector when I was planning my matrix. Or I did for a few minutes! I wasn't able to wrap my head around how to make that work on an 8'x16' 'screen/mesh'. So I went with technology I knew I could get to work....

Maybe I'll go back and do some more research. This idea was for the 27 show....not this year... I was just looking ahead so I could start budgeting for it. I have time to dig around and research before finalizing a plan.

Good to hear from "OLD" friend! Haha.....
 
The Halloween guys have great talents with projectors and fine mesh. it wouldn't take much of a projector to do that size of
a screen. Not much stopping you from going larger actually . You will need to consider the placement and protection of your
projector . Weather and theft proofing . Also distance from screen to determine if a short throw is required or not .

I'd be interested to see what you decide . like may other members , I am always here if you need help with the video - masks - etc.
You know i'm big on that stuff !

I hear you loud and clear about old . where did the last 14 yrs go ?

cheers
 
angus40 said:
The Halloween guys have great talents with projectors and fine mesh. it wouldn't take much of a projector to do that size of
a screen. Not much stopping you from going larger actually . You will need to consider the placement and protection of your
projector . Weather and theft proofing . Also distance from screen to determine if a short throw is required or not .

I'd be interested to see what you decide . like may other members , I am always here if you need help with the video - masks - etc.
You know i'm big on that stuff !

I hear you loud and clear about old . where did the last 14 yrs go ?

cheers
Click to expand...
Thanks Rich... You are the video 'dude' for sure with all that 'spensive' Adobe software! 😁

I read all the posts I could find on the site and concluded that I don't want to jump into making my own projection mapping. I'm just not good at and frankly don't enjoy tinkering with videos that much....I just don't have the patience. Haha.

I would mostly want to throw up some MP4's and animated gifs and xLigfhts effects. Not sure if you can do all those with a projector or not. So that shows you how little I understand the use of projectors.

After reading as much as I can find on the site I was disappointed that I couldn't find a link to a 'how to' video other than the one that you posted some time ago about projection mapping which, as I mentioned, I won't be attempting. There is a lot of talk about 'big picture' (pun intended) stuff but I need more specific instruction in order to understand what I would be trying to accomplish. I don't even understand what actually controls (i.e. Falcon controller or FPP) the projector.... Since I use a FPP for my regular show, from what I read, I'd need a remote FPP but I don't know if the projector is connected directly to the remote FPP or a serial or USB to HDMI converter used with a controller.....EEK....😬!

Then there's placement of the projector. The location of my 'mesh' would be at the top of a small hill which would, I think, require some sort of pole or raised platform to mount the projector on since ground level would be several feet lower (3'-4') than the mesh.... I would think that would put the projector smack dab in the field of view....unless the projector doesn't need to be level with mesh center....(You can see how little I understand...🤔).

OK, sorry for the rambling and whining! Haha. I know that was much more than you wanted to hear....But I wanted to give you a small sample of my doubts on using a projector.....

Hope you and yours are doing well....
 
Is there a better piece of technology than a projector for displaying video content? Television was essentially created based on illuminating tiny phospors arranged in rows and columns and affixed onto a piece of glass. Color expanded that into RGB. When you build a matrix using LEDs, you're essentially building a low-definition television. I'd think the projector would be the obvious choice because the technology has already been developed and perfected. At a rather low price, too.
 
dirknerkle said:
Is there a better piece of technology than a projector for displaying video content? Television was essentially created based on illuminating tiny phospors arranged in rows and columns and affixed onto a piece of glass. Color expanded that into RGB. When you build a matrix using LEDs, you're essentially building a low-definition television. I'd think the projector would be the obvious choice because the technology has already been developed and perfected. At a rather low price, too.
Click to expand...
Hey 'dirk'. I like your idea of better/cheaper! 😉 I guess the idea that projectors are the "obvious" 'low cost" technology makes me wonder why so many people built their matrix from pixels and decided to go the 'poor man's jumbotron' route rather than opting for theater-like projection with "superior" imagry.

That is probably the main reason, other than not understanding how to incorporate them into a display, that I haven't looked deeply into projectors. Since most of the matrices talk I've seen seems to center on pixel construction. I just figured that people, technology-wise smarter than me, were opting for pixel matrices because they believed that pixels worked/looked better for a matrix.

But hey, I'm open to reconsidering.....IF I can figure out how to do it....🤨
 
The current projector technology can automatically adjust the Keystoning, so the projector can be located just about anywhere out of the way.
 
If I may - I agree with the projector ideas - to a point.
The biggest gotcha is the environment that it will be used in. The light levels during use is the main one. If it is used only during dark times, it is by far the better way. If, however, it is used during "lighter" times (daytime, before dusk, dusk, etc.) then the projector cannot compete against natural light. (Note that we tried the projector with a high light output, and it worked to a point. Washed out during daylight.)

Because of this, we decided years ago to go with pixels in our larger props/matrix. 4' x 8' (two of them) have pixels at 1" centers and are seen from a distance of around 35 feet. An 8' x 16' matrix has pixels at 2" centers and is seen at a distance of 50 feet. When used during "daylight" (or almost daylight) we crank them to a higher output (say - 60%) and then dim them down after sunset (to - 35% max).

Pixels do require planning in making sure the images/gif/video works at the "lower" resolution.
 
algerdes said:
If I may - I agree with the projector ideas - to a point.
The biggest gotcha is the environment that it will be used in. The light levels during use is the main one. If it is used only during dark times, it is by far the better way. If, however, it is used during "lighter" times (daytime, before dusk, dusk, etc.) then the projector cannot compete against natural light. (Note that we tried the projector with a high light output, and it worked to a point. Washed out during daylight.)

Because of this, we decided years ago to go with pixels in our larger props/matrix. 4' x 8' (two of them) have pixels at 1" centers and are seen from a distance of around 35 feet. An 8' x 16' matrix has pixels at 2" centers and is seen at a distance of 50 feet. When used during "daylight" (or almost daylight) we crank them to a higher output (say - 60%) and then dim them down after sunset (to - 35% max).

Pixels do require planning in making sure the images/gif/video works at the "lower" resolution.
Click to expand...
Hey Algerdes.....THANK YOU for the information. My show starts after dusk.....well I do have a preshow countdown but that can be moved to another prop if need be.....Plus I live in a rural area....no street lights to compete with so, based on your comment, the projector would work well in my case.

Thank again

SC
 
Keystone is a nice, single word for making the image plane square to the display surface. Manually, it's done by shifting/twisting the projector lens but more recent technology allows electronically changing the dimensions of the image inside the projector so that the lens displays it correctly. It's no big deal and nothing to be afraid of.

Back in the 70's I used to produce multi-media shows using multiple slide projectors (up to 12) and we spent a lot of time deciding on the best way to present the shows to the audiences. So, consider that most implementations of projectors involve the viewer in a reflected-light situation where the projector puts the image on a bright screen and the light is reflected back to the viewers' eyes. Another implementation is to make that more direct by placing the projector behind a translucent screen medium so that the light goes through the screen directly to the viewers' eyes. Some brightness is lost either way, but the backlit method allows placing the screen closer to the viewers' eyes, allowing them to view a larger and generally brighter image. A lot depends on the translucency and/or reflectivity of the screen material used.

Don't just default to projecting onto a bed sheet. Yeah, it's cheaper than a really good screen, but a bed sheet is somewhat translucent and some of the brightness will go through while some will be reflected, and the overall result is not very good because a lot of light is lost.
 
algerdes said:
If, however, it is used during "lighter" times (daytime, before dusk, dusk, etc.)
Click to expand...
I've never taken one apart, but with LED technology today, could the projector bulb be replaced with an LED or two? They're using LED's for highbeam headlights now.
 
dirknerkle said:
Keystone is a nice, single word for making the image plane square to the display surface. Manually, it's done by shifting/twisting the projector lens but more recent technology allows electronically changing the dimensions of the image inside the projector so that the lens displays it correctly. It's no big deal and nothing to be afraid of.

Back in the 70's I used to produce multi-media shows using multiple slide projectors (up to 12) and we spent a lot of time deciding on the best way to present the shows to the audiences. So, consider that most implementations of projectors involve the viewer in a reflected-light situation where the projector puts the image on a bright screen and the light is reflected back to the viewers' eyes. Another implementation is to make that more direct by placing the projector behind a translucent screen medium so that the light goes through the screen directly to the viewers' eyes. Some brightness is lost either way, but the backlit method allows placing the screen closer to the viewers' eyes, allowing them to view a larger and generally brighter image. A lot depends on the translucency and/or reflectivity of the screen material used.

Don't just default to projecting onto a bed sheet. Yeah, it's cheaper than a really good screen, but a bed sheet is somewhat translucent and some of the brightness will go through while some will be reflected, and the overall result is not very good because a lot of light is lost.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information. If I were to go with a projector I would try to attach the 'screen' to my current matrix frame. But it has horizontal cross members as well as 4 vertical poles. The outside poles wouldn't be a problem but the 2 center ones would make the screen look like the # symbol only on a large scale...Haha...And if I were to remove the 2 center verticals (made from fence rail) the 16' cross rail would sag 'bigly' in the middle. So I wouldn't be able to project from behind. From the front it is then!

You mentioned brightness and that's another area where I have no clue as to how much is enough.....or too much. Either extreme is a 'show stopper'... I hate low light/brightness dim images and too much brightness appears washed out and loses color (like pixels at 100% brightness). So that's one area that I need to do some homework to figure out which projector to go with.

I figured the screen would be critical. I don't know if they come in a solid 8'x16' size or if one would have to connect pieces together somehow to make that size. For that matter I wouldn't know a good one from a bad one or even which type of material they're made from is best. These are the types of question I did a search for on the site and just came up almost blank and therefore my reluctance to proceed...

All that said the hardware setup is another dark area. I understand how to do a remote FPP setup for pixels but how to make that work with a projector is 'above my pay grade' at the moment. Haha.....

I'm one of those people who likes to know the answers before I begin a project. 'Blueprints' are my friend! Haha. I get frustrated, quickly, when I try to guess my way to getting a working solution. That usually means I break the 'thing' 2 or 3 times before I get close to getting it to work like I want. Haha.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top