Mega Tree Help - Suggestion on Parts to Start

M

mstang1988

New member
I’m looking at building a 100 pixel 2” spacing Mega Tree, 180 degree, 16 strand (1600 pixels total). With a 6ft to 8ft base it should be ~15.5 to 16ft tall. What topper and pole system would folks suggest?

I’ve seen the Boscoyo 16/32 topper with fence rail but then came across a video that said don’t use fence rail as it’s not sturdy so now I’m a bit lost as to what really is needed.

https://boscoyostudio.com/product/big-megatree-kit/

https://youtu.be/jXCh-F7h3Ko
 
You certainly want your pole to be as plumb and sturdy as possible, but if the guy wires and all the strings are anchored in the ground well, it shouldn't really matter how sturdy the pole is. The pole's job is to hold up all the strings and the topper high in the air--not to hold up against the wind. Your 16 strands and guy lines should be doing that work. I'm using 1-1/2" PVC, which fits around a 3/4" PVC at the base, which in turn fits around a big piece of rebar hammered into the ground. I use no special guy wires--I just use white rope and a few carabiners.

Some people have built these impressive pulley systems for their poles, which I never entirely figured out. Basically, the higher up you go, the better your design has to be. At 16 feet, you are somewhere in the middle (i.e. you're not 10 feet, but nor are you 30 feet).
 
I have my Boscoyo topper bolted to a floor flange which then screws onto a 1.5” black iron pipe. I have another supported by 1” black iron.

I’ve never had any luck using fence rail with any of Boscoyo’s products. Black iron pipe has become my go-to.
 
Early in our adventure, we used Top Rail poles (TRP). Had 5 trees at just 10' tall. Got a call from the park caretaker one morning early in the display with the words, "Your trees are down". The wind had caught the 16 strips and used them to push, pull, twist, and generally mangle the TRPs. All 5!

Since then the thinnest poles we use are 1 & 1/2" EMT. Usually 1 & 1/4" black pipe. We have only bent one of them in the decade plus that we have had the display, and it was thanks to moles digging around the guy-wire stakes. (Yes, they went around all 4!) The stakes let go, the tree went down, across another prop of heavy build. The pipe bent. :(

We stand trees up to 14 feet tall manually. Anything above that gets either a winch setup, or an ASAP pole. (You can do a search of the forums for ASAP, ASAP Jr., or ASAP Sr. Great design by a friend to all of us, Walter M.

As for those first 5 trees. We cut those TRPs about a foot below the topper mount. It fits nicely within the top of our black pipe, so we didn't even bother refitting the toppers for the new setup. They have lasted at least 9 years now. :thup:
 
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algerdes said:
Early in our adventure, we used Top Rail poles (TRP). Had 5 trees at just 10' tall. Got a call from the park caretaker one morning early in the display with the words, "Your trees are down". The wind had caught the 16 strips and used them to push, pull, twist, and generally mangle the TRPs. All 5!
Click to expand...

How exactly did they fail? I don't see how the TRP would have mattered much, and if the wind was catching all 16 anchors, that's like lying down on a bed of nails: lying down on one nail will hurt, but not a whole bed of them at once. I know one big disadvantage I face at a park is that I don't always have access to dirt. I have to lie props on hard pavement, and I can't anchor to anything. What I read from your post-mortem account is that the strands actually added more shear stress to the pole, instead of stabilizing it? It should be the other way around: wind shear on the pole translates to tensile stress on the strands and the guy lines.
 
I have used the HolidayCoro tree topper and strips for 5 years now and have never had any collapses. I also built a very simple system to lower the last half of 16' of tree so that I didn't have to drop it all on the ground (heavy!!) I live in wind country - Nebraska. I have had more issues with the wind pulling up the stakes in the ground and then whipping the strip around. Last year I used a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe and drilled holes in it to strap each strip down, I staked the PVC pipe with rebar to add strength. No more strips pulling up! My frustration is having the strips over time warping and having them not want to point out straight. I just converted this year to pixels from strips, so maybe that might help, not sure. Has anyone found a successful way to keep those strips pointing straight forward? Let me know if you needed any other info.
 
The strips are more wind-catching than most people figure. Just try to hang on to one when the wind is whipping around.
Your statement for "all 16 anchors" says you are taking all of the individual strips to ground. A lot of us, including in those trees, use a base ring with only a few actual ties to the ground itself.
All it takes is for any of the "anchors" to let go. We had 5 anchors in each ring. Several in each ring were pulled out of the ground. Turned out that the soil consistency wasn't as "solid" as we originally thought. A hundred plus years of cultivation.
Once there was any "give", the forces being applied first on one side, then the other, worked them loose enough that the TRP bent. All of them did.

I use TRP for a lot of things. Frames to hold matrix panels, main posts for props (non-tree), and so on. As I type this, I'm creating panels with back supports out of them. I am very careful to use at least 17 gauged (or thicker) wall thickness pipe.IMG_0581.jpg

Just learned my lesson with the trees. With the exception of the one the moles helped bring down, all the black pipe and emt have all stood for years now.
 
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IMG_0581.jpgFrom the backside of one of our free standing panels. This one is 10 feet tall, contains a "Sally Tree" from Doug P., a spinner, and a frame of pixels.

Not trying to take over the thread. Just showing that TRP isn't "all bad". :eek:hmy:

A basic tree will have a pole, a topper (to attach your pixels to), a base (or base ring), and supports to the ground. Most may use guywires. Some use free standing setups, usually on shorter trees.
 
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algerdes said:
The strips are more wind-catching than most people figure. Just try to hang on to one when the wind is whipping around.
Your statement for "all 16 anchors" says you are taking all of the individual strips to ground. A lot of us, including in those trees, use a base ring with only a few actual ties to the ground itself.
All it takes is for any of the "anchors" to let go. We had 5 anchors in each ring. Several in each ring were pulled out of the ground. Turned out that the soil consistency wasn't as "solid" as we originally thought. A hundred plus years of cultivation.
Once there was any "give", the forces being applied first on one side, then the other, worked them loose enough that the TRP bent. All of them did.

I use TRP for a lot of things. Frames to hold matrix panels, main posts for props (non-tree), and so on. As I type this, I'm creating panels with back supports out of them. I am very careful to use at least 17 gauged (or thicker) wall thickness pipe.View attachment 46108

Just learned my lesson with the trees. With the exception of the one the moles helped bring down, all the black pipe and emt have all stood for years now.
Click to expand...

A base ring is fine. Indeed, that is all I have to go with if I'm planting on top of solid pavement. The wind shear will blow both the strands and the pole sideways, which in turn will make the pole want to bend away from the wind. Which is okay--the pole pulls on the strands, and the strands then pull on the base ring to resist the movement. And assuming the base is wide enough, it can take it. It's a base ring--it's supposed to be ballast. All the strands just need to be tied to the base ring, so they are contributing.

Where I could see this failing is if you had a 180 tree, but you didn't put guy wires pointing in the other direction away from the strands. Now, if the wind direction comes directly opposite from the viewable angle, all that wind shear is going to blow on the strands, but the pole has nothing to pull on (due to the wind direction). That tree might not even survive 25mph winds.
 
I'm not running pixels, but a regular strand tree is the same concept. We have been using a 1 1/2" (I think, could actually be a bit bigger) for over 10 years with no issues. Our tree is about 18' high and even on the most windy of days is extremely solid.
I'm convinced our secret, in addition to the emt, is having 3 guy wires off the top of the tree and 3 guy wires attached to the middle. I remember when I was researching building it, seeing a large amount of pictures of trees that collapse along the center of pole. With the additional wires in the center of ours, it's been really solid.
 
Thank you all for the advice! Given my late start this year I’ll order I topper and save this for last in case I run out of time to really do a solid job with proper piping etc. I’m also considering shortening to 10ft as I do have a fairly sloped yard. On the portable hole setups, yes, I looked those and they look awesome! What do folks do with them in the off season? Has anybody considered using a portable basketball hoop base (that you fill with water) as a similar alternative?
 
mstang1988 said:
Thank you all for the advice! Given my late start this year I’ll order I topper and save this for last in case I run out of time to really do a solid job with proper piping etc. I’m also considering shortening to 10ft as I do have a fairly sloped yard. On the portable hole setups, yes, I looked those and they look awesome! What do folks do with them in the off season? Has anybody considered using a portable basketball hoop base (that you fill with water) as a similar alternative?
Click to expand...
Looking for one of those plastic fillable parts just now I came across this. https://basketballprobase.com/

I wonder how well that would work for the pole and then still use lines.
 
I actually use a Christmas tree stand to fill the role of your basketball base. It lets anything 1 1/4" go through the hole, to the ground, it's outdoor-worthy, and it provides a lot of ballast. It also makes aesthetic sense. Between that and the rebar, my tree has been standing up pretty solid through the weather, even when the strands' anchors fail. I've had other props blow halfway across the yard, but my tree hasn't even blinked.
 
My suggestion would be an ASAP pole 2"OD with 1 1/2"inner rod and a very good guy wire set up. This thing is a sail and you need to treat it like one.
Your tree will be 16.6 feet tall plus your topper height. Your topper should be at least 1 foot in diameter and should have at least 32 holes. You will need holes on the back side to stabilize the pixel straps. At some point you may not be satisfied with 180 degree tree. I wasn't and went to 240 degrees (32 strings on 48 holes). I built my own topper out of 1/2" aluminum because it was the only way I would get what I wanted. I used tent bungees to keep the straps taught. It will be important that your ring and pole be square so that everything is lined up. If you are on flat ground, I would also consider the portable hole. Makes your setup easier. Good Luck!
 

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