New build on Renard SS24 issues

B

BillW

Supporting Member
I recently built a new SS24 board and purchased a board that was already built from a forum member. Before placing them in service I did a thorough check on both boards following the wiki Renard new beginner section and troubleshooting guide, both boards check out good, electrically and diagnostically. However, when I run each board, I can only get the first eight channels to work, channels 9-24 do not respond. I swapped the PIC chips from U6 to U7 to see if channel 9-18 would work but it didn't, however channels 1-8 did, so I know I programmed the PIC's correctly. Next, I double checked the jumper settings since I'm using a USB to serial cable (I know old school) jumper is on JP1, I swapped U4 and U5 chips but no change (I know this goes to the RS485), checked the DM settings for the USB/RS232 cable and made sure they matched in Vixens setting and even updated the driver for the cable, no change. Next, I purchased a new USB/RS232 cable and tried again, no change. Checked all solder joints and reflowed as need, no change.

I'm at a lost, has anyone else had this issue? Your help is appreciated.

Thanks
 
Since both boards are behaving the same, it sounds like a setting in your software may be off. Which Vixen are you using? May sure either on is outputting correctly and active.

Did you supply power to both sides of the board? It wouldn't explain channels 9-12
 
I agree with WakeFan. It sounds like you're only sending out 8 channels worth of data from your sequencing program.
 
Lets see the controller config in Vixen including any patching. It should be 24 channels with appropriate patching to things in your sequence you are actually putting effects on.

Is this one controller with 24 channels or are you trying to control 48 channels?

Swapping the PICs was good idea. Communication between PICs is through the traces on the board so if the data is not moving from #1 to #2, be sure to double check the data path. Most easily seen between U7 and U8 but you are really interested in U6 and U7 path so make sure that path is good. Look inside the sockets at U6 and U7 and make sure nothing is out of order. Make sure the pins are all going down inside the sockets nice and straight.
 
Also, you should set up the controller without any special start addressing when you test it. This can depend on the PIC used. And don't mix -- if you use the 16F688 or 16F1825, don't mix the two; use only one or the other in the controller, not both.

Start address firmware for the 16F688 should begin with start address 0.

Start address firmware for the 16F1825 should begin with start address 1.

And like others have said, at a minimum, you need to send 24 channels of data to a 24-channel controller. If you send less than that, there isn't enough data to trigger all the channels. And remember, the data needs to be in 8-channel chunks (i.e. you can't send 11 channels and expect it to work.)
 
dirknerkle said:
Also, you should set up the controller without any special start addressing when you test it. This can depend on the PIC used. And don't mix -- if you use the 16F688 or 16F1825, don't mix the two; use only one or the other in the controller, not both.

Start address firmware for the 16F688 should begin with start address 0.

Start address firmware for the 16F1825 should begin with start address 1.

And like others have said, at a minimum, you need to send 24 channels of data to a 24-channel controller. If you send less than that, there isn't enough data to trigger all the channels. And remember, the data needs to be in 8-channel chunks (i.e. you can't send 11 channels and expect it to work.)
Click to expand...

I apologize for the late response. I hope y'all had a Merry Christmas and thanks for the response. After reading through the post here is what I have:
All my PIC chips are the same (16F688) and flashed with the firmware found here in the wiki, none have addressable start addresses, just the original firmware from the wiki.
I have 24 channels of data being sent to the board, did not know that before, learned something new today!
I'm working with one 24 channel controller...However, I do have a 48-channel controller (2) 24 channel daisy chained at the end of the line, does that matter, when I'm testing channels 1-24?
I located the schematics in the wiki and checked for continuity between U6 pin 6 and U7 pin 5 and found no issues, got a nice tone from my meter!
I'm running version 3.9u5 (don't like to upgrade while show is running, usually do this prior to or after the season.)
Even checked for proper pin orientation of the PIC's.
I have attached my PC/Vixen setup below.

Thanks again and happy New Year!
 

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i'm not overly familiar with Vixen 3 but at a quick glance it looks good to me.

The 48 channel controller, is that known good or is that part of what you just built and/or purchased? If it or any of your boards are known to be good, try putting that board 1st in line. If it only shows 8 channels on that board then the issue is surely software.
 
How many fps are you runing? At 57.6k, you are getting close to filling the entire timeslot at 20FPS (50MS). If you are running faster, you are over running the timeslot. Cut back the controller to only how many channels you have attached in groups of 8. The SS controllers work in groups of 8 so you want something divisible by 8 that covers the props involved. If you only have one board attached, only put 24 channels on the Renard controller.

It appears you patched 154 channels. Is that a goal or something that you have already? If you want to try with 154, change the controller to have 160 outputs if you are running 20fps (50 ms). If you are running faster, you will need to limit the controller to 142 or less or you can flash the chips with faster firmware. 115.2k will handle 154 even at 40fps.
 
ctmal said:
i'm not overly familiar with Vixen 3 but at a quick glance it looks good to me.

The 48 channel controller, is that known good or is that part of what you just built and/or purchased? If it or any of your boards are known to be good, try putting that board 1st in line. If it only shows 8 channels on that board then the issue is surely software.
Click to expand...

Yes, the 48-channel controller is good, I used it last year for my show and it's at the end of the line. The boards in question are: 1) a prebuilt board I purchased from a member on this forum and 2) a board I built just prior to Christmas. Both boards check out electrically and have the proper PIC chip and firmware, as mentioned earlier I even checked out the traces from one PIC to the other. I took a known good backup SS24 board and tested it and I only get channels 1-8 to light.
 
MikeKrebs said:
How many fps are you runing? At 57.6k, you are getting close to filling the entire timeslot at 20FPS (50MS). If you are running faster, you are over running the timeslot. Cut back the controller to only how many channels you have attached in groups of 8. The SS controllers work in groups of 8 so you want something divisible by 8 that covers the props involved. If you only have one board attached, only put 24 channels on the Renard controller.

It appears you patched 154 channels. Is that a goal or something that you have already? If you want to try with 154, change the controller to have 160 outputs if you are running 20fps (50 ms). If you are running faster, you will need to limit the controller to 142 or less or you can flash the chips with faster firmware. 115.2k will handle 154 even at 40fps.
Click to expand...

I'm running at 50MS (see attached photo) I just found out that I could flash the firmware for faster speed, just need to learn how to do it and find the firmware for this.
I unpatched everything and repatched just 24 channels and sequenced a test program for the controller to reflect 24 channels and now I get no response. I re-booted the controller, Vixen program and PC, checked DM and Vixen settings for the same settings but nothing from the controller.
 

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Does you patch screen show 24 elements patched to 24 channels.... did you try your 24 channel back up from last year to see if still nothing?
I'm assuming you are using a USB serial - do you have a back up to try? I never had any luck with those...
 
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BillW said:
Yes, the 48-channel controller is good, I used it last year for my show and it's at the end of the line. The boards in question are: 1) a prebuilt board I purchased from a member on this forum and 2) a board I built just prior to Christmas. Both boards check out electrically and have the proper PIC chip and firmware, as mentioned earlier I even checked out the traces from one PIC to the other. I took a known good backup SS24 board and tested it and I only get channels 1-8 to light.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to take the known good controller(the 48 channel controller) and put it first in line to test if you're getting the same result? This will rule out whether it's a Vixen setup issue.
 
WakeFan said:
Does you patch screen show 24 elements patched to 24 channels.... did you try your 24 channel back up from last year to see if still nothing?
I'm assuming you are using a USB serial - do you have a back up to try? I never had any luck with those...
Click to expand...

Yes, I took a known good controller (not the 48-channel controller), but a known good controller, not the one that I just built or purchased this year, but one used from last year and I got the same results. I made sure that all 24 elements patched correctly but got no response from the test sequence of a mega-tree (24 channels), but when I play a sequence (separate from the test sequence) that I made this year only channels 1-8 comes on. \
Yes. I'm using a USB to serial. I thought that was the issue so I purchased a new one and I still get the same issues.
No. I have not ran a sequence from last year's backup, I will give it a try and report back.

Just ran a sequence from last year and no response!
Still at a loss for a solution!

I do appreciate all the help and inputs, hopefully this will not be one that will stomp the forum. :)
 
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Are channels 1-8 coming on and staying on or are they responding to the test sequence?
Maybe post pics again of everything... Vixen setup screen, controllers, etc... anything you think could help.
When you made the mega tree of 24 channels did you do any color handling? Or straight 24 channels?
 
BillW said:
Yes, I took a known good controller (not the 48-channel controller), but a known good controller, not the one that I just built or purchased this year, but one used from last year and I got the same results. I made sure that all 24 elements patched correctly but got no response from the test sequence of a mega-tree (24 channels), but when I play a sequence (separate from the test sequence) that I made this year only channels 1-8 comes on. \
Yes. I'm using a USB to serial. I thought that was the issue so I purchased a new one and I still get the same issues.
No. I have not ran a sequence from last year's backup, I will give it a try and report back.

Just ran a sequence from last year and no response!
Still at a loss for a solution!

I do appreciate all the help and inputs, hopefully this will not be one that will stomp the forum. :)
Click to expand...

The fact that you tested a known good controller and got the same results points to the data coming in and should eliminate the controllers themselves as the suspect (at least for this issue).

Unfortunately this takes me out of my wheelhouse. I looked in Vixen 3 but I don't see a test channel option anywhere. This would make sense with all that Vixen 3 handles.
 
Color settings on the props and in the sequence. Vixen 3 is sensitive to colors. Make sure you set the same color on the element and use the same color in the sequence. Got to be it?! ;-)
 
Initially I would suggest all channels be set to white in the color filter. Then make sure all effects only output intensities of white. That removes a lot of possible failures.
 
MartinMueller2003 said:
Initially I would suggest all channels be set to white in the color filter. Then make sure all effects only output intensities of white. That removes a lot of possible failures.
Click to expand...

I set the color option to all white, tried it again but no response. Uninstalled the program and installed the latest version, ran it again, same results.
 
Didn't think it would help but it was worth a try. It really looks like a config issue on the FPP. Until the test page on the FPP can output data to the pixels, There is no chance that the sequence data can accomplish anything.
 
FPP? If I'm correct you are connecting directly to your computer through Vixen 3, correct?

If I may suggest something to try for testing that might not be popular. Assuming you are going directly from your computer and not using FPP, you can give Vixen 2.x a try.
The only reason I suggest it is because its a really simple setup that is designed specifically for setups like the Renard(great for testing in this case). It also has a test function that you could test the outputs directly. This would simply confirm where the issue lies.

If you're willing to give it a try and need a hand setting it up, let me know. I still use Vixen 2 so if you need, I can create a profile and sequence for you to test with(or help you make one fairly easily).
 
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