Silicone and other sealants on electrical connections

beeiilll

beeiilll

Supporting Member
I ran a test on some RGB strip for 11 months last year to see how different sealants held up to weather, temperature, and the various stages of hot and cold while in the outdoors. I have finished up the test and made up a small pdf file to show what I found.
I thought that maybe the folks here might like to see how things when so they can make better informed decisions on what sealants to use.
 

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Do you have a source, or official name, for the neutral caulk? I have been beginning to look for this stuff as I will soon be doing some candy cane rope light conversions.

Thanks.

PS ~ Thanks for taking the time to do that experiment and take the time to do that write-up!
 
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Strother85 said:
Do you have a source, or official name, for the neutral caulk? I have been beginning to look for this stuff as I will soon be doing some candy cane rope light conversions.


Thanks.

PS ~ Thanks for taking the time to do that experiment and take the time to do that write-up!
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I think I answered my own question, correct me if I am wrong but the "neutral caulk" is the same as the silicone II ?
 
Be a little careful with the silicone II as not all forms of it can be neutral. Most are but you have to check and be sure.
One "source" that I give people is:
http://www.altex.com/GC-Waldom-Elec...ntAdhesive-3oz-Tube-19-155-P141838C10576.aspx

This is a very good type to use for electrical connections. I have used it myself and found it to be a resonably easy to use kind without a lot of mess or trouble.
Of course you can find other types that will work well too but just be sure to check that they are indeed neutral and not the standard acetate type which can eat your connections away through corrosion and chemical action.
Hope that helps.
Bill
 
Good write up! You did a nice methodical test of what has been atecdoal evidence thus far (my apologies if this evidence has been collected else where).

My One suggestion though, I would put more detailed information on the items tested (manufacturers part no, UPC code, or even store sku/ item number)
 
Thanx - Very good write up...but where was it last year when I shortened two strips with the wrong type of silicone ? :naughty:
 
imbluenote said:
Good write up! You did a nice methodical test of what has been atecdoal evidence thus far (my apologies if this evidence has been collected else where).

My One suggestion though, I would put more detailed information on the items tested (manufacturers part no, UPC code, or even store sku/ item number)
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Thanks but I take it that you didn't really read it. The 2nd paragraph should give you a hint as to why there is little actual data in the paper.
I had not only all the information you asked about but more like data from the manufacturers for the actual tested items along with dielectric tests that I ran in a lab with the stuff.

Also giving an actual part number or item name imparts my either acceptance or rejection of a specific manufacturers item which could leave me open to any number of problems from them which I really don't need without going through the process of getting permission to use their name. I have NDA's with some places that I have done work for in the past as well and I had to sign two NDA's to get the information for 2 of the items that I tested.
Stores are too wide spread on pricing for me to endorse any one of them as I tend to find things much cheaper even with shipping online for a lot of things that I use.
There are a lot of other items that could be used for sealing electrical connections but I did not go into such a wide variety of them as this was done on my time and my dime so to speak. It provides enough base information to allow others to make their own decisions without being too specific and that was all I was after.
I do wish that I had all my accumulated data to put into the report but that is just not going to happen at this point. I have almost a years worth of information to reconstruct from my "crash" and that is enough to do for a bit.
I wanted to go ahead and post my findings as they are due to the fact that I have been doing the tests for almost a year to allow some form of information to get posted on various forums due to the mis-information that is out there about sealing electrical connections as well as things about this pixel hobby that are false and can be dangerous to the uninformed.
I am still working with some manufacturers of HMA as well as General Electric on silicone for specific usage and hope to have something on those later this year.
 
Bill,

Thanks for the tests and the results. I just ordered 6 tubes of the GC Silicone. In my last order from China I got two rolls of 12mm silicone tube. The silicone encased ribbon I placed outside when you first started discussing this last year looks very similar to yours, is full of water and doesn't work at all. I'm really sorry I listened to a few suggestions made, and bought 10 rolls of that junk.

If you need any more of the cover, let me know.

Jeff
 
Strother85 said:
It seems as though this should be safe and is available at the local big box(I want to work on these this weekend since I'm off!)...I have used this on aquariums before. Anybody see any reason why it would not be O.K. for sealing electronics as well? Thanks for your help...

http://www.homedepot.com/Paint-Caul...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UQ1MsKNnaBw
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I wouldn't recommend it as it is not neutral. It is the basic silicone that is an acetate base type and will therefore have soem galvanic as well as electrolytic actions on electric connections. The connectons will develope a whitish powder around them much like a car battery or batteries in toys do after a period of time. It is caused by electric current traveling through the silicone and reacting with the chemicals in it.
You really should ask or look for a neutral silicone that will state on it that it is useable for electrical work and not just because it can work on metals or glass. The secret to my study was because of the electricity that is in circuitry and that is why I did my tests for sealants.
 
Jeff Millard said:
Bill,

Thanks for the tests and the results. I just ordered 6 tubes of the GC Silicone. In my last order from China I got two rolls of 12mm silicone tube. The silicone encased ribbon I placed outside when you first started discussing this last year looks very similar to yours, is full of water and doesn't work at all. I'm really sorry I listened to a few suggestions made, and bought 10 rolls of that junk.

If you need any more of the cover, let me know.

Jeff
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Hi Jeff

Well I suppose that my poverty was a good thing last fall as I could not afford to buy up a bunch of the exact same ribbon like I tested myself !!
Plus it has let me take the time to study more and learn a great deal about sealants as well as pixels and controllers so that hopefully I will be "in the know" when I can order a bunch of stuff and let er rip !!

Nice to know you are on here as well. I have pretty much dropped my LOR forum use as it certainly looks more and more like PC over there and they will sanitize anyone who says the wrong thing.

I think you will like the GC silicone. I use it and think it is good stuff. I have been starting to play with some urethane based sealants and they have possiblities but are really messy and you just can not get the stuff off anything that it is on, including the connections !! But it sure does seal - HA.
 
beeiilll said:
Thanks but I take it that you didn't really read it. The 2nd paragraph should give you a hint as to why there is little actual data in the paper.
I had not only all the information you asked about but more like data from the manufacturers for the actual tested items along with dielectric tests that I ran in a lab with the stuff.

Also giving an actual part number or item name imparts my either acceptance or rejection of a specific manufacturers item which could leave me open to any number of problems from them which I really don't need without going through the process of getting permission to use their name. I have NDA's with some places that I have done work for in the past as well and I had to sign two NDA's to get the information for 2 of the items that I tested.
Stores are too wide spread on pricing for me to endorse any one of them as I tend to find things much cheaper even with shipping online for a lot of things that I use.
There are a lot of other items that could be used for sealing electrical connections but I did not go into such a wide variety of them as this was done on my time and my dime so to speak. It provides enough base information to allow others to make their own decisions without being too specific and that was all I was after.
I do wish that I had all my accumulated data to put into the report but that is just not going to happen at this point. I have almost a years worth of information to reconstruct from my "crash" and that is enough to do for a bit.
I wanted to go ahead and post my findings as they are due to the fact that I have been doing the tests for almost a year to allow some form of information to get posted on various forums due to the mis-information that is out there about sealing electrical connections as well as things about this pixel hobby that are false and can be dangerous to the uninformed.
I am still working with some manufacturers of HMA as well as General Electric on silicone for specific usage and hope to have something on those later this year.
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That's what happens when you assume...i did read the whole document A simple "i had the information but lost it with the PC crash" would have been sufficient.

Plus all i suggested was the exact part/product you tested. The reader can make their own determination as to which to used based off of your test results. Plus if you had to get NDA's to test or use these products, then how accessible are they going to be anyhow.
 
Well if you did read it then why ask?
I had to get NDA's to be allowed to get the formulations for the products. They are standard over the counter products but companies really don't like to give out the formulas and/or exact specs on products due to corporate spying and I needed the formulas to run dielectric tests to get accurate readings as well as provide baseline results to compare things too.
If by some remote chance the last 2 hard drives that are out for data recovery do provide some information on the test results, then I will post an updated file on it.
That is enough of answers on this post.

And just to be clear so others who read the file will not be mislead since it says it there, I did not have a PC crash.
 
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Just my two cents here...remember what ever you seal will keep in moisture in as well as out. In fact, based on my experiences with motorcycles, a tiny hole will let volumes of water in but not out of a device. So, unless you can truly seal an item (think NASA here) a provision to expel moisture is needed.

I have found many 'non conductive' sealants to leak just enough to cause all kinds of mystery problems. The truly nonconductive potting materials are also expensive and very hard to remove if repairs need to be made.

UV protection should also be considered.
 
I want to offer an apology to imbluenote and anyone else who I may have "ruffled their feathers" with my responses.
Things have not gone good for me for the last couple of years and I was in a foul mood yesterday as well, but that was no reason for me to be bitter and sarcastic towards anyone on here or anywhere else for that matter.

So my apologies to all.

A problem with part and or product numbers is that they can change or be updated all the time. I tested the GE silicone brands of silicone both I and II for the tests if that helps any. I do know that GE Silicone II has gone through one reformulation on the product since I started the test and is presently being evaluated for another change as of now.
Also there is a problem with stores and displays that can give people trouble finding the product as I have personally seen both Lowe's and Home Depot place items on a mislabeled shelf (ie, regular 100% silicone - the bad kind for electrical work, placed on a shelf for silicone II). That can mislead people who don't read the actual product and depend on the store to have it right. There are also various types of silicone II caulk for various purposes and should be researched by anyone who is going to use the stuff before they do.

I would also have to mention that I would probably recommend a different type of sealant to someone who is in Florida or California than I would to someone who is in NY like me or the upper midwest since the climate can certainly affect the overall performance and characteristics of the sealant being used.
My test was only to get a good base for people to make decisions from and not to offer much in the line of specifics on any certain product. The lack of information on this topic was the reason for the test and hopefully to get people to research and look before you leap to prevent troubles with some expensive materials for a "hobby" as this is. The big one thing that bothered me was the large number of people who think that hot melt adhesive is good to use for sealing electrical connections. Even some who will say "Oh this is low voltage" or "this is just a hobby" gave me some fears about using a product that is not even recommended by the industry that makes it for electrical work unless it is applied in a controlled environment and then it is more like an epoxy covering that would be almost impossible to repair. Also it may be low voltage but it IS high current with the potential to kill someone.
There is a big difference between using HMA to hold a strip of pixels to something and using it to cover an electrical connection that you could easily put your hand on and get nailed. I would not want to get that shock while up on a second story ladder trying to figure out why a string was not working.
There are many new people coming into this hobby without any knowledge of electricity and that is something that is a scary thought. I don't want to see unneccessary regulations come out because someone was not informed, educated, or just careless around electrical things. But that can be a subject for another debate altogether.

The finding about the clouding up of the resin covering on the strip was quite a surprise for me as well although I did have some reason to believe that it would happen, just not to the extent that it did. The great number of photos that I lost had a very nice timeline for showing the "aging" of the strip but alas are lost. They and the other data would have provided much more information to all but at least this gives others some insight and basic information to help them out.

So I hope that I will better control my emotions while posting and be more objective and least "cranky" in the future.

Bill
 
Bill,
Thanks for posting this info!

Jeff Millard said:
The silicone encased ribbon I placed outside when you first started discussing this last year looks very similar to yours, is full of water and doesn't work at all.
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Any ideas how the water got in?

How was it mounted (horizontal, vertical, etc)? Also, how were the ends sealed?

don
 
Make sure the TUBE says GE Silicon II when you are looking for "neutral cure" silicon. I've used the stuff from HD & Walmart and it is the right stuff. Not sure about the "reformulation" mentioned above though...
 
Read this thread here and at PC. Really useful information. I appreciate the thought and time spent on this.
 
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