It wants to be 2.5 when it grows up

I would tend to agree with you on this JR - I see nothing wrong with an offer to KC to help make Vixen just that much better by cleaning up some of the backlog and allowing him to concentrate on new features. Obviously it is all up to KC and no one is saying he must do anything - but again it seems like a completely reasonable request/offer to me.

I also agree that no one at any time has seemed ungrateful in any way - in fact completely the opposite. anyway - - just my $.02...
 
KC

With so many more people using Vixen on so many different OS combinations there is bound to be some teething problems.

I like to personally say THANK YOU for all your efforts and to say

2.5.0.8
is working for me under Windows 7 x64 Ultimate RC1 (still) for programming
and
XP SP3 for the show computer

Both machines - 640Ch profile and 2 DMX universes.

I'm not using curves at all this year and the only thing that i can't get to play nicely is background scripts and the timer, no real issue easy to work around.

Cheers and best wishes for a happy and merry Christmas
Aussiephil
 
Re: "Hi, I'm a Mac..."

In the past when windows has crashed, I pull the old hard drive from the system. Go to my local store buy a new hard drive since they are so cheap now, rebuild windows. Once this is done, I either plug the old drive in as a slave or put it in an external enclosure. Pull the data off and we are back up and running.
 
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KC

With so many more people using Vixen on so many different OS combinations there is bound to be some teething problems.

I would like to point out that is entirely incorrect. The entire point of the .NET architecture is to provide a common interface for programs to adhere to. There should be virtually no different in functionality between running Vixen on XP and on 7.

I would also like to express my views on Vixen. I have been around since before Vixen even existed. When KC first started to develop it I offered to help him out but he also expressed the same personal reasons for keeping it closed source. At the time, I was also planning on developing my own software for this purpose but subsequently decided not to because it would segment the community. In this instance I do not think competing software is a good thing and that developmental efforts should be focused on one piece of software.

I think I have contacted him regarding helping two times since and have received the same answer. In the past few years, this hobby has grown by a huge percentage. There are very few forum members who roll their own software and a large number rely on the functionality Vixen provides (myself included). However, many people are frustrated by bugs every year (again myself included) and this is not related to hardware (my christmas lights computer is a very nice machine). I believe Vixen has scaled to the point that it requires more eyes on the source code in order to be functional and reliable. There are also a fair number of UI enhancements that can be made as well as inconsistencies that need to be addressed.

For all people who are giving me and anyone else advocating open sourcing Vixen static, I'm sorry but you frankly do not know much about software development. KC, please correct me if I am wrong but you are most likely using a code-and-fix development model right now. While this model probably worked well when Vixen was small, it has enlarged to such a point that a different development model is needed. Moreover, it is evident that KC, nor probably anyone with a real life, does not have the time to properly maintain and debug software that is as complicated as Vixen has become.

Here is how I envision the future of Vixen's development:

-Vixen will be open sourced and released under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States or another like license. This license does not allow commercial uses of Vixen's code and does not allow branches to be developed and released. This will keep Vixen unified and disallow people to utilize Vixen for their own gain (something they can technically already do). Open source licenses have been upheld in US courts as valid licenses so legally this would protect Vixen.

-A roadmap will be created as to where Vixen will be going based upon existing ideas KC has as well as community input. This gives the project goals and can focus development where it matters.

-The bugtracker will actually be used to track bugs (although I would prefer using a service like Google code or github for this). This allows for a much better identification of bugs.

-Source code control will be implemented. This can be either git or svn.

-KC will be the primary maintainer of the project. This means all patches to the Vixen source will go through him and be approved by him. This means he still effectively 'owns' the source of Vixen.

-Vixen will be developed and tested in an iterative style. I believe the first step will be making version 2.5.0 stable. From there 2.5.x will be small bug fixes and enhancements. I must stress that in order to maintain stable software, the current version must be made stable before the next version can be developed. I do not wish to be overly critical but there are bugs that exist in the 2.1.x branch that were not entirely addressed in the 2.5.x branch.

A development cycle like this would allow us to have stable software each year for our holiday usage. More eyes will kill more bugs and additional coders will allow some pretty cool new features to be added to Vixen. There are feature sets of this software that can be improved that are not necessarily in KC's area of expertise. There are people on this forum who do have this expertise. This can improve the overall quality of the software.

Furthermore, an open source model will allow those that wish to give back to this hobby the chance to contribute even if they do not know how to code. While the development of hardware is rather complicated and is basically limited to the handful of hardware developers on this forums and the various testers, the software is much more easily "contributable". We would need moderators for the bug trackers, alpha and beta testers for the software, people to write documentation (which is lacking, even for plug-in development), etc.

All in all I think open-sourcing Vixen would create a VERY strong piece of software for this ever-growing hobby to utilize. Thanks for reading my small novel.
 
From reading this thread it sounds like KC's stand on the issue has been VERY consistent.

While the arguments for open source have merit, they don't take into consideration the expectations/desires of the software creator.

I for one am content with saying thanks KC.

Greg
 
As always, I thank everyone for their patience, their input, and their continued indulgence in letting me pursue this hobby and this love of mine. You guys have a lot of choices out there these days, so anyone who chooses to use this is bestowing an honor upon me and I thank you for that.

I just read this in Your first post KC. All I have to say is Are you kidding me? Thank you for not only "indulging" us but responding to requests and issues better than most commercial software companies.

My First display finally up and running. Although its not what I had planned, it turned out pretty well and people are amazed. You and your software are responsbile for a great part of that. I can't thank you enough for that.

I downloaded and played with Lightshow Pro. I thought it might be easier learn and use and would not have any bugs. It simply wasn't the case. Vixen is a great piece of software regardless of price. When you add in the the fact that it is free, it simply blows the others away.

I am now getting it setup so my two older kids can create their own sequences to run. They are very excited. Now the only problem is that I'm certain I will have Justin Bieber song in my program!

Thanks again and keep up the great work.

Kelly
 
From reading this thread it sounds like KC's stand on the issue has been VERY consistent.

While the arguments for open source have merit, they don't take into consideration the expectations/desires of the software creator.

I for one am content with saying thanks KC.

Greg

Thanks, Greg. You said EXACTLY what I was trying to express. I wasn't trying to say that people are ungrateful, but that KC has said on multiple occasions that this is how he wants to do it. If people keep trying to explain how much better it would be if it became open-source, KC may get tired of hearing it and move on to another project/program and just drop the headaches. I wouldn't want to see that. I don't see why some people don't get the fact that Vixen is KC's to do with whatever he wants to do.

I don't consider him a god, but I do consider him to be the sole owner of some intellectual property. I really don't care if there are 50,000 users of the program, they have NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER to the direction it takes, nor the time it takes to get there.

If you don't like how long it takes to squash a bug, well, there are lots of empty sectors on your hard-drive. Start filling them up with your own efforts. If you come up with the most remarkable program that the world has ever seen, I'm sure that you can corner the market and save the world.

Who, me? Cynical??? Naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


:mad:
 
I really don't care if there are 50,000 users of the program, they have NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER to the direction it takes, nor the time it takes to get there.

If you don't like how long it takes to squash a bug, well, there are lots of empty sectors on your hard-drive. Start filling them up with your own efforts. If you come up with the most remarkable program that the world has ever seen, I'm sure that you can corner the market and save the world.

Amen to that! Well said, WireWrap!
 
I have been around since before Vixen even existed.
A few of us have been too. You probably remember the two predecessors to Vixen also, neither of which were open source until their abandonment.

I think I have contacted him regarding helping two times since and have received the same answer.
I don’t think you’ll ever hear differently. Vixen is KC’s inception and he modeled it from our requests. He has stated that it is his gift to the DIY community and he asks nothing in return. Yup, it does have some minor bugs, so does the commercial ones that are trying to keep up with it. Vixen still gets fixed much faster. The hardware that we develop here has bugs too; it’s the nature of our hobby.

If people could test Vixen as heavily early in the year as they do when its show time, the bugs would get squashed more quickly. The of bug discoveries seem to have a short blip before Halloween and peak around the first week of December; not surprising though. Not nearly as many people were testing Vixen 2.5 when it was at Beta release. We thought it was stable, clearly we missed some things.

I don’t believe more eyes is the answer but instead, more hands on use. Since nobody writes perfect code, there will always be bugs. It’s a matter of doing the right thing in the right order at the right time.

I can understand KC’s reasons for not opening up Vixen and I’m OK with that.
 
I'll go on record on this topic as well.

Vixen should NOT, NEVER, EVER become open source until/if it ever becomes abandon-ware.

Past history has proven we need only 1 cook in the kitchen.

2.1 was terrific, 2.5 was a bit glitchy, but it gained extra features some of us have come to rely on (Dimming curves!!)

I have no complaints at all.

Keep up the good work KC.

Release the next version as 2.6 and break the 2.5 series "curse"..:rolleyes:

I downgraded to 2.1 for this season but still use 2.5 to tinker new sequences with.
 
If people could test Vixen as heavily early in the year as they do when its show time, the bugs would get squashed more quickly. The of bug discoveries seem to have a short blip before Halloween and peak around the first week of December; not surprising though. Not nearly as many people were testing Vixen 2.5 when it was at Beta release. We thought it was stable, clearly we missed some things.

This is why I have always said that if you want to do a Christmas show, July4 and Halloween light shows are mandatory.
It lets your test out any new hardware you may have, and gives you an excuse to put vixen thru its paces running a real show.

Work out the bugs for July4, get a stable version for Halloween and stick with it. Turn off updates.

If you expect to set out a bunch of lights Dec 1 and light them up for the first time with no glitches to work thru....
that is just not realistic, you will have problems and you need to do advance testing to make sure Vixen is stable on the computer that will be running your show.

Joel

Only had one lockup this year, and I think that was because windows had pushed updates and was waiting to install.
 
For all people who are giving me and anyone else advocating open sourcing Vixen static, I'm sorry but you frankly do not know much about software development.

I disagree with this. I write software for a living and have been doing so for sometime. There have been many times that I have been the sole developer on large scale projects and I work for an International company with several hundred developers. I am pretty sure we know about software development!!!

I see no reason for making vixen open source, what we need to have is more testers earlier in the year helping to define the situations that cause the program to malfunction.

On another note, if we keep pushing KC to make HIS code open source, he may just take his toys and leave!!!! I would prefer this not to happen. I have had a few problems with 2.5.0.8 but none of them were show stoppers.
 
I disagree with this. I write software for a living and have been doing so for sometime. There have been many times that I have been the sole developer on large scale projects and I work for an International company with several hundred developers. I am pretty sure we know about software development!!!

I see no reason for making vixen open source, what we need to have is more testers earlier in the year helping to define the situations that cause the program to malfunction.

I too have done a large amount of software development and I have never seen an instance where one person working alone is more efficient than a team of people with a set plan to develop. This is also KC's project not his primary means of earning a living. There are matters of life which will take precedence over this and development time will take longer. This is simply the nature of the beast.

As for those saying "you have unused hard disk sectors", I would be more than willing to start my own project for lights controlling software but I am quite sure it is not the best thing for this community. This is not a situation where competition is necessary for the end-result to be better. A competing piece of software would most likely have to maintain compatibility with Vixen sequences. This would be out of necessity and for convenience sake. A competing piece of software would steal Vixen users and provide no real arguable advantage (since anything this new software does could be duplicated in Vixen). Competing software would require testing that would be put to better use testing Vixen. I would much rather contribute to and make better the efforts KC has already put in than attempt to match or better them. The only good reason I can see to write a Vixen alternative would be for *nix support. Even then, a simple C executable that parses a Vixen sequence file and runs it would be all that is necessary since the sequencing can happen inside Vixen.

Ernie, I do remember the old software solutions and this is part of the reason why I would rather see Vixen open sourced. After the effort KC has put into it I do not wish to see it die. If life takes over for KC (I sincerely hope it does not) then where does that put everyone else? The users of a piece of software DO have a stake in said software for they are the clients the developers are targeting.
 
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If life takes over for KC (I sincerely hope it does not) then where does that put everyone else? The users of a piece of software DO have a stake in said software for they are the clients the developers are targeting.

How is this for an idea. Lets say in the future KC wants to bow out... We create a fund , somehow contribute $5 each. When it gets to a figure of several grand, part gets donated to , i dunno...sourceforge , the rest goes to KC... a one time license buy for the community.

(yeah, this is a joke, I just couldn't resist making a negative contribution to the thread! ;) )

Oh, and thanks KC...for making a fine piece of software to run my show....now about the background music player.
 
Can a mod please add a link to the downgrade utility to the first post? It is getting lost in all the other discussions in this thread.
 
This is why I have always said that if you want to do a Christmas show, July4 and Halloween light shows are mandatory.
It lets your test out any new hardware you may have, and gives you an excuse to put vixen thru its paces running a real show.

Work out the bugs for July4, get a stable version for Halloween and stick with it. Turn off updates.

If you expect to set out a bunch of lights Dec 1 and light them up for the first time with no glitches to work thru....
that is just not realistic, you will have problems and you need to do advance testing to make sure Vixen is stable on the computer that will be running your show.

Joel

I agree with Joel.
I had my show sequenced, scheduled and running each night back in October. I had a few lock ups here and there but they were all caused by me fiddling.
If you are going to try something new, do it early in the year so KC can sit back and enjoy the season.

KC, (and the hardware developers) you have done a wonderful job and we all appreciate your efforts.

Merry Christmas
Jon
 
...
Ernie, I do remember the old software solutions and this is part of the reason why I would rather see Vixen open sourced. After the effort KC has put into it I do not wish to see it die. If life takes over for KC (I sincerely hope it does not) then where does that put everyone else? The users of a piece of software DO have a stake in said software for they are the clients the developers are targeting.

He didn't say that you didn't have a "Stake" in it, he said that you didn't have any "rights". Which you don't.

Its clear that you are in a significant minority with your views about open-sourcing. You may very well be correct about the benefits for quality and speed of development. I certainly would not argue with any of your points, but you don't seem to get the main one that is being made by others here. The bottom line is that it's KC's to do with what he wants. He is clearly a gifted developer and he deserves our support and gratitude. He may eventually decide to go that route or he may try to take it commercial. For now, I'm just happy that he's sharing it with us.
 
Just adding my 2 cents.

<soapbox ON>

I've been using Vixen since the .9x versions, I tested it a lot back then and KC was and is quick with the fixes. It has been KC's to do with what he wishes, it's not open source, he does not want it open source, it is HIS, not ours. KC has been extremely gracious to the community by GIVING this software to us, and constantly developing it. It's not shareware/donationware, etc, it's free.

Please don't tell KC what to do with HIS software, I feel he will do what he sees best for Vixen and the community, if it's closed source, so be it, I have great FREE software to use!

<soapbox OFF>

THANKS KC!!

Tom
 
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